Che cosa e questa Tarta!?

[Maria]

Io gia mandato due fotto molto simili alle questa tartaruga! Penso che si puo sapere che cosa e (quale specie)?

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Cordiali saluti, Marco

[gmariell]

...se una sulcata e una gigantea potessero accoppiarsi...

[geopardalis]

è una Geochelone chilensis donosobarrosi
ipermelanistica

[gmariell]

..la Geochelone chilensis mi sembra abbia una colorazione del carapace decisamente + giallastra..

[Fede]

Per il colore potrebbero esserci varianti, a me quello che non convince è il piastrone...

http://www.grupotortuga.com.ar/articulo ... pecies.htm

http://www.chelonia.org/Articles/Gchilensiscare.htm

http://www.tortoise.org/gallery/picchaco.html

http://www.tortugamania.cl/geochelone.php

http://www.grupotortuga.com.ar/fotos/to ... %20(hembra).jpg

[platysternon]

Secondo me una Indotestudo forsteni

[Luca-VE]

Se devo essere sincero anch'io ho pensato a una chilensis.
A vederla, tralasciando il colore, ha la classica struttura del gruppo "Chelonoidis", anche se piramidata.
Il colore fa pensare a una mutazione scura di chilensis, pero' il piastrone non combacia...

[Miriam]

Beh lanciarsi su variazioni cromatiche prima ancora di azzardare una specie è curioso davvero....

Si tratta di una indotestudo, quasi certamente una forstenii.

ciao ciao

[platysternon]

credo fosse un indovinello quindi perchè non avanzare ipotesi?

[Ale]

Ma le indotestudo non hanno una struttura del carapace ben più allungata?
Boh!

[Maria]

Citazione:

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Messaggio inserito da platysternon

credo fosse un indovinello quindi perchè non avanzare ipotesi?

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Yes, of course, Sir, we must know right answer in this matter. I also was in doubt for long time, due to two other photos of one Tortoise, I attached in this Forum earlier, i.e. as follows:


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But, never believe in first glance!!!
Above mentioned two photos I received from USA, and they show melanistic Mutation of Red-footed Tortoise. Evidantly, this animal is enough old with not so beautifull appearance, but anyway - body color is very strange.
So, after received new photos of strange Tortoises from France, I though - it could be the same type of color Mutation, i.e. melanistic Mutation of some South-American Tortoise species (carbonaria, denticulata or chilensis). Due to its body shape, the nearest of South-American species could be Chaco Tortoise (Geochelone chilensis), and it is normal reaction of few members of Turtle Forum to believe - IT COULD BE COLOR MUTATAION OF SOME SOUTH-AMERICAN TORTOISE SPECIES, like I personaly though in the beginning.

But, as Federica wrote firstly, than - Luca VE confirmed, we are coming in front with one problem appeared: what with the plastron marking, i.e. plaston appearance!? The plastron photo is showing, it could not be G. chilensis, or any other South American Tortoise species. No at all!
Also, what with very light colored head of this Tortoise, more light in color than its forelegs. And finaly, what with specific (pronounced, wide) nuchal scutes!?
Looking on these three charactestistic we come very near to final answer. Above mentioned charactestic are giving us to one family of Tortoises only, into Indotestudo, of course. So, we are having one Indotestudo Tortoise, but which one!?

By body shape, we could see, this animals is not elongated as both Indotestudo species. But, it was the main reason in my mistake in determination of this species - I forgot, young Indotestudo Tortoises should not to be elongated immediately. In younger age, they are still keeping rounded body shape, and we can see it in many pictures.
Finaly, looking on carapace color (as well in plastron color, too), we will always preffer to claim this animal is Indotestudo forsteni, than Indotestudo elongata. And, it was the reason to come into second mistake in its determination!
Elongated Tortoise (Indotestudo elongata) is having greatest variation in its body color than any other Tortoises species. I found the following about it, wrote in one big site of land Tortoises:
"The ground color of the shell is caramel colored to dark yellowish brown, with blotches of black on each scute - this can be variable with some tortoises appearing totally caramel colored and others nearly completely black. This difference in color coupled with a marked difference in size of area populations has led some researchers to believe that there may be subspecies of Elongated tortoises yet to be determined"
So, not so rare, Elongated Tortoise (G. elongata) is appearing as animal in near to completely black carapace color, and its head color going down from light yellowish, to grey white color. And, we are coming in animal as presented on my photos.

So, we are having one unusualy colored ELONGATED TORTOISE (Indotestudo elongata), and many Tarta Forum member are very near in its identification. The only body color gave them into wrong trace, but anyway, there were on right way from the beginning!

Warmest regards, Marco

[Fede]

Quindi Indotestudo elongata?

[Luca-VE]

Gia' davvero molto strana comunque, non era facile!

[Maria]

Citazione:

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Messaggio inserito da Fede

Quindi Indotestudo elongata?

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Si, da very, una Indotestudo elongata! I will give more proofs regarding this claim right now, as follows:

There are two main characteristic in differentiation of I. elongata from I. forsteni, as follows:

1. THE NUCHAL SCUTES

If one Indotestudo has a nuchal scute,it could be either I. elongata or I. forsteni.
But, I. elongata has a pronounced, rather wide nuchal scute, and it is easy visible in any photo. On the other side, if nuchal scute is narrow (extremely slim) and not pronounced, or if there is no nuchal scute, then we can be reasonably sure to have one I. forsteni.
On photos earlier attached, it is very easy to see, this female is having wide, pronounced nuchal scute!!!

2. THE INTERPECTORAL SEAM

This anatomical feature is the best way to differentiate two Indotestudo species. The interpectoral seam are two scutes that run between the front limbs on the plastron. In I. elongata, this seam is very wide from the front of the animal to the back of the animal (see picture with the interpectoral scutes denoted by the red bars. I. elongata is the second animal!).
In I. forsteni, the interpectoral seam is very short from the front to the back (see bellow attached photos again with the red bars denoting the interpectoral seam. The first animal is I. forsteni).

On fifths attached photo of mine, we can see very easy, the interpectoral scute is belonging from I. elongata species!!!

I am attaching some photos to prove above claims,

Yours truly, Marco


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photos 1, 2, 3 and 4 = color variations in I. elongata
photo 5 = young body shape in I. elongata
photo 6 = frontal view of young I. elongata
photo 7 = plastron of I. elongata

photo 8 and 9 = carapace and plastron of one I. forsteni male
photo 10 and 11 = carapace and plastron of one I. forsteni female
photo 12 = frontal view (nuchal scute) in one I. forsteni
photo 13 = comparation between plastrons of one I. forsteni (first one) and one I. elengata (second one), i.e. between their interpectoral seams

[Maria]

Note:

Appeared one mistaka in photos attaching. Photo no. 6, i.e. = frontal view of one Indotestudo elongata,
appered later, i.e. on wrong place, i.e. between
- plastron photo of I. forsteni, and
- frontal view photo (nuchal scutes) of I. forsteni!
I am sorry for that inconvenience!
Warmest regards, Marco